PNZI Newsletter No 6 - 20 July 2014

PROBUS NEW ZEALAND (INC)
NEWSLETTER NO 6 (20 July 2014)
Progress Report on Membership of PNZ:
After allowing for a number of Club closures during the past two years, the total of current Clubs in
New Zealand now stands at 432.
To date, counting those Clubs who have already joined PNZI and those who have voted affirmatively
with paperwork in transit, we have reached 200 Clubs as of this date.
There are in excess of 130 Clubs yet to confirm their status with many still conducting the voting
process. It would only need a small proportion of these to come on board for PNZI to be able to say
that it represents a majority of NZ Clubs in its first year.
It is also worth noting, that a large proportion of those Clubs who have retained their affiliation with
PSPL, did so for reasons of expediency given the timing of the voting process and the date for
payment of fees to PSPL. Some tell us they have already decided to join in 2015, whilst others say
that it is their intention to recommend such a course of action to their membership later this year.
The PNZI committee believe that this is an excellent outcome to what has been a challenging process
for all concerned and look forward to the time when only one entity will be in place providing support
for all NZ Probians.
Communication with PSPL:
As most clubs already know, the six NZ Rotary District Governors have been endeavouring to broker
discussions between PSPL and PNZI. After some backwards and forwards dialogue on the
conditions for such talks, we have advised the parties of our position with regard to any future
meeting. We cannot agree to an open agenda as suggested, and not have the subject matter for the
meeting clearly defined. PNZI will not be hijacked into any arrangement that involves arbitration or
mediation.
PNZI wish to advise all NZ Probus Clubs, both those who have joined us in good faith, those still to
vote, and those who have remained with PSPL for this year but have their decisions under review,
that PNZI will not compromise our current position and enter into any arrangement that constitutes a
return to anything reflecting the old system. We remain prepared to enter into discussion on how both
parties can contribute to the future and how Probus can be managed to assist continued development
in both countries.
Talks with PSPL (Continued):
Late Edition - The PNZI Chairman reports as follows –
One of the 6 NZ Rotary Governors has been acting as a go-between to bring about discussions
between PSPL and PNZI representatives. Several steps had been taken but as of 16 July 2014,
because of the failure of the parties to finalise pre meeting subject and agenda conditions, PNZI has
taken the decision to withdraw from the proposed meeting.
To assist clubs to understand the situation, we quote from the letter forwarded to Rotary District
Governor John Rickard by PNZI Chairman Dr Ross Gurney.
“We are of the resolute view that the matters we have raised and the purpose of the meeting, must
be clear before we meet, i.e there needs to be agreement on the purpose of the meeting and at least
the main agenda items. We are not interested in any kind of dispute over who is to blame for the
current situation, nor are we willing to get into an arm-wrestle over who has the 'higher' authority.
We are 'close' to the clubs in New Zealand and have extensively sought and obtained their views.
From the very significant and still growing number of clubs that have elected to join Probus New
Zealand Incorporated, it is indisputable that they wish to be separate from PSPL, to govern affairs
- 2-
under a new New Zealand Probus organisation, and that there will be no turning back or reunion with
PSPL. They are proud and committed Probians, but no longer supporters of PSPL.
Since there is not more openness from PSPL, and your position (being Rotary) is that preconditions to
a meeting, indeed even an agenda, should not be pre-determined, we withdraw our initial willingness
to meet. To meet under those conditions would be naive on our part, invite a confrontational
approach from the very beginning, and would be a lengthy and costly process.
PNZI wishes to further advise NZ Probus Clubs and members that it remains available to meet with
PSPL, but this must be on agreed pre-arranged terms and conditions. These have, since the above
decision was taken, been communicated to the team of newly-appointed replacement District
Governors for 2014-2015”.
Our Name:
PSPL, after many years of advocating they held sole rights to the Probus name in Australia and NZ, in
January 2014 applied to the Intellectual Property Office New Zealand to register in their favour, the
name Probus. Fortunately we intercepted this, and as of right lodged the necessary objection. The
process is at the stage now of assembling and presenting evidence. We have suitably qualified
attorneys acting for us.
The case will eventually be heard before an IPONZ Commissioner, should a settlement not be
negotiated in the interim. This subject is one of PNZI agenda requirements should the proposed
meeting with PSPL take place. We in PNZI do appreciate the level of club concern on this matter and
will be doing our very best to get a successful outcome.
Travel Insurance:
This subject continues to claim our attention. We can report that Southern Cross is well satisfied with
the number of PNZI website hits and the eventual business being transacted. We urge where their
policies suit member requirements, that advantage be taken to use this source as volume will
determine if the special discount can be increased for Probians who access SCTI though our website,
In Auckland on 8 July the 9920 (Auckland) Probus Association held an information meeting. In
response to a question from the floor, a retired Director of Southern Cross Healthcare responded:
“Harley Gray, Mt Hobson Probus, pointed out that travel insurance carries risks. PSPL’s cover has an
upper limit of $100,000 for medical expenses but it does cover all pre-existing medical conditions
subject to a Doctor’s certificate confirming “fit to travel”. Whilst the Southern Cross policy has
unlimited liability and does include a list of PECs, some without charge and others where an
additional premium is payable, it is hoped that the list of presently excluded PECs can be extended. In
the meantime, members should weigh up which risks are more important for their travel
circumstances, from whomsoever they buy their travel insurance”.
Dr Gray added that he, together with a retired Director colleague of Southern Cross, have made a
submission to the Company in regard to the current PEC policy. SCTI has agreed to consider this
submission.
Regionalisation:
The PNZI committee has decided that the major review of the Rotary District regions we are currently
using will be delayed until the 2015-2016 Probus year. It is considered time is against us in having it
completed this year in time to be used for the March 2015 regional elections to the NZ Council. The
need for wide club consultation is paramount before any decision is taken.
The intention (at this time) is that a regional Association will be the prime centre of local club activity,
and any administration that may be required. Each region will elect a representative to the NZ Council
for a three year period retiring in rotation. The 2015 regional election will be for one year when the
review is completed.
-3The number of NZ regions it is hoped can reflect communities of interest and prevent distance
travelling. It could be if the number of regions exceed the number of councillors required, then a
councillor may have to represent more than one region. All of this is for the future. Clubs will be asked
for input into the process.
Elections to Council 2015:
The PNZI Committee are currently formulating the system under which this “one off” election
will be held. Management appointments as to responsibility for the election, rules for nominations by
clubs, qualifications for nominations, the necessity for a pre-selection should this be required, the
voting process to be set, and the subsequent appointment of regional scrutineers all need to be
formulated. We will keep clubs posted as we work through this issue.
Role of Associations:
There are three local Associations in NZ formally affiliated to PSPL. This has raised comment that
clubs who have joined PNZI are not eligible to be members of their particular Association. Some
Associations have been very pro PSPL in the past, and have entered into Probus policy areas one
way and another. PNZI holds the view that membership of an Association should be open to any
legitimate Probus club.
One of our PNZI members has written 1.Associations constitutionally can only discuss matters affecting 'social' activities.
2. They cannot involve themselves in Policy matters.
3. The autonomy of clubs is acknowledged i.e. irrespective of what Associations 'decide', clubs are
not bound to 'agree', or to do anything they do not wish.
It has been my (the author’s) impression, (since 2009), one of these Associations in particular has
been misinterpreting its role, (has seen itself as a 'guiding body'), and - more regrettably - the clubs
have looked to the Association for Leadership and Guidance
Noting the above limitations placed on them by their Constitution, it is clear that, in convening
meetings to discuss the merits, (or otherwise), of PSPL versus PNZI, the Association concerned has
been acting outside its constitutional brief - i.e. it has been acting Ultra Vires.
That said, and looking ahead, as we see Associations performing a different role, then attention will
need to be given to amending their Constitutions. As with the clubs, this would follow the line of
abandoning their present Constitution and adopting a new one.
PSPL on Winding Up NZ Probus Clubs:
One of our PNZI committee members came across the following Sonny Bill Williams (SBW) made a name for himself as a Rugby player and boxer. He is remembered
particularly because he "changed code" several times. That is, he changed from playing Rugby
League to playing Rugby Union- and then later changed back again. Each time he changed, he had
to play under different rules. On none of these occasions did he cease to exist as a person or more
particularly cease being Sonny Bill Williams. All he did was change playing under one set of rules to
playing under a different (very similar) set of rules.
When Probus clubs discard one constitution and adopt another they are doing the same as SBW. The
club is still the same group of people. Were they to 'wind up' they would cease to think of themselves
as a club and disperse. But all they have done is to change the set of rules under which they are
playing, they have not disbanded. Further if someone from PSPL or Rotary tells a club they must
wind up, that is completely misguided because the club's Constitution says that only club members
can determine whether they will wind up. It cannot be imposed by an external person/body. We
suspect our friends from Australia are seriously misguided.
-4Statement by the new PSPL Chairman:
At a recent Auckland Information Day Mr Peter Carroll made the following statement to a meeting of
190 Probus Club delegates and observers. We quote from the circulated minutes of that meeting :
“Some clubs had asked what needs to be done if a club disaffiliates. Peter Carroll said that clubs must
follow constitutional winding up procedures. If there are funds left over they must be donated to a
charity of the club's choosing. The club will no longer belong to the affiliated Probus Association as
well. PSPL works closely with Rotary. If disaffiliation occurs there will also be no relationship with
Rotary”.
It was not reported in the minutes but Mr Carroll did in addition say “If clubs disaffiliating did not
comply, legal action would be taken to ensure they did.”
PNZI is researching how PSPL can enforce such a situation, but can locate nothing by way of
Constitutions or Rules that validates such a threat. We can only conclude it is a large scale bluff to
intimidate clubs and members.
A Letter from a friendly Club Secretary:
Good afternoon one and all, Good news.
I received a letter from XYZ Rotary today. They acknowledged my letter and now I quote:"The Board of Directors of XYZ Rotary were aware that this decision was imminent.
We have decided to fully support your plans to be known as the XYZ Probus Club and join Probus
New Zealand Inc. We extend our best wishes for your future endeavours."
Signed - ,The Secretary
XYZ,Rotary Club .
PNZI Conference Report:
This, our inaugural meeting, was held in Auckland on Sunday 6 and Monday 7 July. As you can
imagine a huge amount of ground was required to be covered, this including a wide range of material .
e.g an analysis of existing practices and investigating those issues required to take PNZI forward
successfully. The committee placed considerable emphasis on our database requirements and
statistical backup to assist decision making.
Some individuals and clubs have questioned PNZI’s ability to provide a succession plan in order that
we have the ability to service club requirements into the future. They were concerned that once the
original steering group moved on, the undertakings given in the PNZI platform might not continue.
Immediate measures will be instigated to reinforce our management numbers in the lead up to
elected representatives taking over.
No firm decisions have been made as to a future headquarters for PNZI. With the overall policy of
decentralisation into the regional areas, and the use of modern technical aids, we are not sure that a
traditional type of headquarters is necessary. The committee was firm on the question of continuing
availability of access to the Centre being maintained to reply to club queries particularly in the early
stages. Our budget provides for this through employed staff services.
The full agenda for this conference is impossible to cover in this newsletter. In the items contained in
this publication much is the result of conference deliberation. We invite questions from clubs and
members at any time on PNZI policies.
-5Financial:
The PNZI budget expectations produced in our end of April 2014 Budget document is firmly on track.
To date $50,500 of our $60,000 income from capitation is to hand, and apart from Conference
expenses is untouched. From the expected inflow of clubs still to join us, the budget target will be met.
Original $20 (plus) donations by clubs has been utilised in day to day expenditure from our
commencement date.
As to budgeted expenditure for year one, this has not been as high as expected and we are satisfied
we have the required margin to cover the current year’s outgoings with safety. PNZI has excellent
financial experience among our numbers to guide this aspect of our operations. The greater the
number of clubs joining the better our position will be.
Clubs Yet to Vote:
We are reluctant to apply any form of influence and pressure on clubs who are still to vote. Your
decision is your decision in today’s democratic world. On the other hand we consider it our
responsibility in the interests of NZ Probus to give those clubs in this position the facts surrounding
the current situation.
PNZI is receiving tremendous support and is close to achieving 50% of NZ club membership. We
value that support tremendously as we proceed to being recognised as the legitimate Probus
organisation representing NZ clubs. The more sizeable that mandate the stronger our negotiating
power with the incumbent organisation. Split Probus support in NZ, although workable, is far from
ideal. On this question we are desirous of moving forward as soon as is possible to put to bed any
suggestion of a divided NZ Probus.
Many Clubs have adopted a wait and see stance in order to judge what support we receive, and our
ability to manage the new situation. That is understandable. We are now however, based on our
soundings and research, confident with those remaining, that our mandate will improve further. For
stability reasons we are sure the majority of NZ Probus members want it the same way.
Regalia: Latest addition (19/7) to this Newsletter:
We have had it confirmed that regalia supplies are available to PNZI from overseas sources.
Best wishes until our next Newsletter to all clubs and members from
David Burnett - PNZI Committee Member on behalf of the Chairman.
PNZI Conference Attendees
6-7 July 2014
Back L-R
David Burnett, Russell Tether,
David Tucker, Graeme
McIntosh, David Lee.
Front L-R
Murray Dunbar, Ross Gurney
(Chairman), Joan Dykes.

Download Report