Hoch 11-3 first four sentences of B on page 165 Good work

Hoch 11-3
first four sentences of B on page 165
Good work, everyone. If you remember from way back when, I promised you that this would get
harder as we approach the end of the book. I hope no one thinks this is easy now, because if you think
that, you've missed something. This stuff is hard. It's hard for me and I've been through it a few times.
And your hard work is something that impresses James Hoch. I know. He's told me so, and he's told
other Egyptologists, too, sometimes even in my presence, and he wasn't just trying to be polite. He
gushes about what's going on here. Good work.
And I'm glad to see you're responding on GlyphStudy. In fact, I missed one of the earlier responses
when I said 'c'mon Hoch people, answer these things'. There was an answer already sitting there and I
missed it. No cookie for me, but cookies for everyone who responds.
B1) Words addressed to a judge
“This thing called a weight - it's the tongue,
this thing called a deben - it's the heart,
this thing called the arm of the balance - it's the two lips”
B2)
For a full, and really quite interesting account of HepDjef's contract see
http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/texts/hepzefi.htm
Now I tell you!
'iry-pat HAty-a imy-r Hm-nTr HpDf Dd.f n Hm-kA.f m.k nn xt r Dr
“The nobleman of venerable lineage, the regional governor, overseer of priests, Hepdjef, to his ka
priest, see to it that all these things (... these things to their limit)”
'xtm(w).n.i m-a nn wabw Xr st Hr.k m.k grt in Hm-kA'
“which I have put under contract in the hands of the wab-priests who are under your supervision, so
look, a man's wab-priest
'n s srwd xt.f srwd pAt.f
“he is the one who perpetuates his things, who perpuates his bread offerings.”
B3)
'mDAt tn Snit gs-tp stp n p(A)qt diw r tp.f'
“Papyrus roll of handling a migraine headache, a strip of fine linen should be applied to his head”
B4)
'(pXrt) kt mrwt m gs-tp Dnnt nt nar snwx Hr mrht gs-tp r Hrw 4'
“Another (remedy) for migraine pain: the skull of a catfish, boil it in fat, anoint the head there for four
days.”
XXXX
< I9 S29 D21 >
Hoch 11-3
Hoch 11.b1
Transliteration:
tx pw ns. k dbn pw ib.k rmnw.f(y) pw spty.ky
Translation:
The plummet, your tongue. The weight, your heart. Its upper arms, your lips.
GSL: X1:Aa1-U41-Q3-Z7-N35:F20-S29-F51:V31A-D46:D58-N35:F48-O39-Q3-Z7-F34*Z1:V31AD21:Y5-N35:W24*Z7-Y1:I9-Q3-Z7-S29-Q3:X1-D24:Z4A-V31:Z4A
P
V
s
i
o
S
O
pw
tx
ns. k
pw
dbn
ib.k
pw
rmnw.f
spty.ky
A
Yeah,, except I guess I would probably place the 'pw' in the S slot too, along with the other stuff, on the
grounds that it's not a pronoun. But, yeah, good grid.
I first translated as: The plummet = your tongue. The weight = your heart. Its upper arms = your lips.
Literally should be:
The plummet this your tongue. The weight this your heart. Its upper arms this your lips.
In a nominal A pw B, pw (this) can be translated as “it is”.
Hoch 11.b2
Transliteration:
iry-pat HAty-a imy-r Hm-nTr Hp-Df Dd.f Hm-kA.f m.k nn n(y) xt r Dr
xtm.n.i m-a nn n(y) wAbw Xr st Hr.k m.k grt in Hm-kA
n s srwd xt .f srwd pAt.f
Translation:
Hereditary nobleman, Nomarch, Overseer of the Hm-nTr priests, He says to his Ka-Priest "Behold all
these things.
I have contracted with these Wab Priest who are under your supervison. Behold, Now the Ka Priest
of the man who perpetuates his things and who perpetuates his offering loaves
GSL: D21:Q3:D36-F4:D36-G17:D21-R8-U36-V28-Q3:N36-I10&I9-I10&D46-I9-U36&D28-A1:I9G17-D38:V31-M23-M23-N35-Aa1*X1:Y1:Z2-D21-M36:D21-!
Aa1:X1-S20-Y1:N35-A1-G17&D36-M23-M23-N35-D60-A1:Z2-T28:D21-Q1-O1:X1-D2:V31a-G17D38:V31-W11:D21:X1-M17-N35-U36&D28-A1-!
N35-O34:A1-S29-D21:G43-D46:T12-Aa1:X1:Y1:Z2-I9-S29-D21:G43-D46:T12-G40-X1*X6:I9
P
V
s
Dd
.f
i
o
S
O
iry-pat HAty-a
imy-r Hm-nTr
Hp-Df
A
Hm-kA.f m.k
nn n(y) xt r Dr
xtm.n.i m.k grt in Hm-kA
P
P
V
s
xtm.n
.i
V
s
i
o
S
O
A
m-a nn n(y)
wAbw Xr st
Hr.k
i
o
m.k grt
in
S
O
Hm-kA
A
n s srwd xt.f
srwd pAt.f
Very, very good.
I used the plural “loaves” as it sounded better than “loaf” in translation.
That's fine. I don't think any loss of precision occurs in this case.
Hoch 11.b2.3
Transliteration:
mDAt nt Snt gs tp stp n pAqt di.w r tp.f
Translation:
A Book of Spells (for) a migaine where they place fine linen on his head.
GSL: Y1:X1*Z1-V12:Z1-N35:X1-V7:N35-X1:Y1-A2-Aa16:Z1-D1:Z1-F51-U21:Q3-V6-N35Q3:N29-X1-H2:V12-W23-D37:Z7-D21-D1:Z1-F51-I9
P
V
s
i
o
S
O
A
mDAt nt Snt gs
tp
stp
n pAqt di.w r
tp.f
Hard to fit into the grid.
Yeah, you got the title fine. It's absolutely right, the whole title is actually is one long subject.
The problem comes after that. 'stp' isn't a verb! 'di.w' is. Now, knowing that, try it again.
If you look it up in a dictionary you will find a verb 'stp'. It basically means “pick out, choose, select”.
But we can tell this isn't a verb because verbs can't exist in indirect genitive phrases. So the root
meaning is possibly something “a choice piece of cloth, a select piece ...” something like that.
Probably actually a participle/adjective in origin which in this case became a full-fledged noun in its
own right.
Hoch 11.b4
Transliteration:
kt nt mrt m gs tp Dnnt nt nar snwx Hr mrHt gs tp im r hrw 4
Translation:
Another for migraine pain (is) the skull of a catfish boiled in fat, (place) it upon the headache for 4
days.
GSL: V31A:X1-N35:X1-U23-G17-D21:X1-G37:Z2-G17-Aa16:Z1-D1:Z1-I10:N35:N35-X1-D1N35:X1-N35:D36-D21:K5-O34:N35-U19:W24*G43-Aa1-Q7-D2:Z1-U7:D21-V28-X1-W23:Z2
P
V
s
i
o
S
O
A
kt nt mrt m gs
tp
snwx
Dnnt nt nar
Hr mrHt gs tp
im r hrw 4
Dnnt nt nar “fronted”?
The sentence actually works like this:
'gs tp...' = “anoint the head”, so there's your verb, an imperative, and youre direct object.
'Dnnt nt nar' = as you knoww, “skull of a catfish”, it's hard to say that it's fronted, it's easier to say that
it's the topic, it's what we're really talking about. So you put in the S, that's right. 'snwx Hr mrHt'
shouldn't have been broken up. It's all one phrase - and it's adjectival. It describes 'Dnnt nt nar'. The
more I think about it the more I think it probably should be 'snwx(t)'. At any rate, it's a passive
participle/adjective (= “boiled in oil”).
'im' = “there”. (?) Well, probably a place holder or even perhaps a preposition with its object 'Dnnt...'
fronted. So I just said that 'Dnnt...' is both the subject and the direct object? Yeah, I think I did, but it's
the topic, it's what we're talking about, it's what we want to put in the spotlight at the front of the
sentence. So actually, the sentence, in it's full form, probably should read something like: 'Dnnt nt nar
snwx Hr mrHt' - good so far, here come the fireworks: 'gs tp m Dnnt nt nar snwx Hr mrHat r hrw 4'.
“anoint the head with...” Did you catch the repetition of the topic? Nobody would ever say a sentence
like that, but that's what's meant.
XXXX
Hoch 11.3 - Dagmar
1.- tx pw ns.k dbn pw ib.k rmnw.f pw spty.ky
Your tounge is a plummet (of the balance) your heart is a weight (of the balance), your lips are its (the
balance's) arms
2.- iry-pat hAty-a imy-r Hm-nTr HpDf Dd.f n Hm-kA.f mk di.k nn n xwt r Dr
The hereditary nobelman, regional governor and overseer of the Hm-nTr priests Hepadjef, he says to
his Ka priest: Look, all these things
xt.n.i m-a nn n wabw Xr st Hr k mk grt in Hm-kA ny s srwd xwt.f srwd pAwt
that I have put under contract with the wab priests, are under your supervision. And look, it is the Ka
priest of any man who perpetuates his things , who perpetuates his offering loafs.
Participial statement: it is the Ka priest who + imperfect active participle
purr-fect!
3.- mDAt n(y)t Snt gs tp stp n pAqt di.w r tp.f
Papyrus roll of investigating migraine headache, a strip of fine linen placed on his head.
di.w - stative form
4.- kt pXrt n(y)t mrwt m gs tp Dnnt n(y)t nar snwx(ti) Hr mrHt gs tp im ra 4
Another remedy for the pain of migraine headache. The scull of a catfish boiled in oil. Anoint the head
therewith for 4 days.
snwx(ti) - stative form
gs - imperative
good work
XXXX
Hoch 11-3
Jill Wilson
(B) 1) Words addressed to a judge
tx pw ns.k dbn pw ib.k rmnw.f pw spty.k
Your tongue is a plumb-bob, your heart is deben, your lips are its arms (of a balance)
(B) 2) Hepdjefas exhortations to his xm-kA priest
Line 1
iry-pat hAty-a imy-r Hm-nTr HpDf Dd.f n Hm-kA nn n xt r dr
Line 2
xtm.n.i ma nn n wabw Xr st-xr.k mk grt in Hm-kA
Line 3
n(y) s srwd xt(w).f srwd pAwt.f
Hereditary nobleman, governor, overseer of Hm-nTr priests Hepdjefa – he says to the Hm-kA priest
“Behold these things in their entirety that I have put under contract with these wab priests being under
your supervision. Look! The Hm-kA priest of any man perpetuates his things and perpetuates his
offering loaves”
(B) 3) Medical Texts
mDAt n(y)t Sni(t) gs tp
Book of investigating migraine headaches
stp n(y) p(A)qt di w r tp.f
strip of fine linen placed to surround/cover his head (using the ‘w’ as surround/cover)
kt pXrt n(y)t mrwt m gs tp
kt should come before the noun – therefore...
another prescription of/for pain of migraine headache
Dnnt n(y)t nar snwk Hr mrHt gs tp im r hrw 4
Skull of a catfish to be boiled in oil. Anoint the head for 4 days
very good
XXXX
nnrnpn42
11B1
tx pw ns.k dbn pw ib.k rmnw.f pw spty.ky
Your tongue is the pendulum, your heart is the weighing stone,
your lips are its arms.
tx: Hannig calls it the "Lot" of a scale, that is,
the perpendicular piece which shows the aberration from
equilibrium; coincidentally, in German it is also
called "Zuenglein", i.e., tongue
11B2
iry.pat HAty-a imy-r Hm-nTr HpDf Dd.f n Hm-kA.f
m.k nn n(y) xt r Dr
Nobleman governor overseer of Hm-nTr-priests Hepdjef,
he said to his Ka priest: Look, these entire things
xtm.n.i m-a nn n(y) wabw Xr st-Hr.k
which I have put under contract with these Wab-priests
under your supervision.
m.k grt in Hm-kA n(y) s srwd xt.f srwd pAwt.f
Look now, it is the Ka-priest of a man who perpetuates his
affairs and who perpetuates his offering loaves.
11B3
mDAt n(y)t snt gs-tp stp n(y) pAqt diw r tp.f
Book of investigation of migraine:
a strip of fine linen which should be put to his head
diw: prosp pass participle
11B4
kt nt mrwt m gs-tp
other (prescription) of pains from migraine:
Dnnt n(y)t nar snwx Hr mrHt gs(w) tp im r Hrw 4
skull of catfish which should be boiled in oil
and with which the head should be anointed for 4 days
snwx, gs: prosp pass part
very good
XXXX
Hoch 11-3
Terry Wilson
B1
Words addressed to a judge.
tx pw ns.k dbn pw ib.k rmnw.f pw spty.ky
Your tongue is the measure; your heart is the weight; your lips are the arms of the balance.
B2.1
Hepdjefa’s exhortations to his hm-ka priest
iry-pat HAty-a imy-r Hm-nTr HpDf Dd.f n Hm-kA.f m.k nn n(y) xtw r Dr
Hereditary Nobleman, Regional Governor, Overseer of the Hm-Netjer priests, Hepdjefa – He says to
his Hm-ka priest; these things in their entirety...
B2.2
xtm(w).n.i m-a nn n(y) wAb(w) Xr st-Hr.k m.k grt in Hm-ka
... which I have put under contract in the hand of these wab priests under your supervision. Moreover,
it is the Hm-ka priest ...
B2.3
n(y) s srwd(w) xt(w).f srwd(w) pAwt.f
... of the man, who makes flourish his things, who perpetuates his offering loaves.
B3
Medical Texts
mDAt n(y)t Snt gs-tp stp n(y) p(A)qt di.w r tp.f
Papyrus roll of an investigation of migraine. A strip of cloth of fine linenshould be placed to his head
B4
kt [pXrt] n(y)t mrwt m gs-tp Dnnt n(y)t nar snwx Hr mrHt gs tp im r hrw 4
Another [prescription] of pains of migraine. The skull of a catfish boiled in oil. You should anoint the
head therewith for 4 days.
very good
XXXX
MichalT
1) tx pw ns.k dbn pw ib.k rmnw.f pw spty.ky
It is the weight of your toungue, it is the deben of your heart, it is its balancing arms of your lips.
2) iry-pat HAt-a imy-r Hm-nTr H(a)p-Df(A) Dd.f n Hm-kA.f mk nn n(y) xt r Drw
xtm(w).n.i m-a nn n(y) wabw Xr st-Hr.k mk grt in Hm-nTr n s srwd xt.f srwd pAwt.f
Here begins (the book of) hereditary nobleman, overseer, Hm-nTr priest Hepdjefa. He speaks to his
Hm-kA priest: All of these things
that I have put under contract with these wab priests are under your supervision. Look now, it is the
wab priest of Man who perpetuates His things and who perpetuates His loaves offerings.
I'm not sure where “here begins the book of...
3) mDAt nt Snt gs tp stp n p(A)qt rdw r gs tp.f
Book of investigating the migraine. A strip fine linen is to be placed on his head.
4) pXrt nt mrwt m gs tp dnnt n(y)t nar snwx Hr mrHt gs tp im ra 4
A prescription for pains of migraine headache. Boil the skull of catfish in the oil and annoint the head
therein for 4 days.
good.
XXXX
Hoch 11-3
JCW
Line 1
tx pw ns.k dbn pw ib.k r rnw.f pw sptwy.ky
Your tongue is drunk, your heart is heavy for your two lips are his pains.
I was trying to give this one to you. Compare with the other homework entries. Questions ->
Glyphstudy.
tx - vb imp active participle - get/be drunk
ns.k - your tongue
dbn - heavy
ib.k - your heart
r - prep
rnw.f - his pains
sptwy.ky - your (two) lips
Line 2
iry-pat Haty-a imy-r Hm-nTr HpDf Dd.f n Hm-kA.f mk nn n(y) xt(w) r Dr
xt(w).n.i m-a nn wAb(w) Xt st-Hr.k mk grt in Hm-kA n s srwd(w) xt(w).f srwd pAwt.f
The hereditary nobleman, governor, overseer and priest, Hepdjefa, said to his Ka-priest: “Look,
everything, which I have put under contract in the charge of these wab-priests, are under your
supervision. Look now, it is the Ka-priest of a man who perpetuates his things and his offering loaves.
iry-pat - hereditary prince/nobleman
Haty-a - governor
Imy-r - overseer
Hm-nTr - priest
HpDf - Hepdjefa
Dd.f - he says/said
n - prep to
Hm-kA.f - his Ka priest
mk - look
nn n(y) - these
xt(w) - things
r Dr - to the limit/to their entirety/everything
xt(w).n.i - which I have put under contract
m-a - compound prep - in the charge of
nn n(y) - dem pronoun pluran - these
wAb(w) - wab priests
Xt st-Hr.k - prep phrase - under your supervision
mk grt- look now
in - introducing a participle statemet
Hm-kA - ka-priest
n s - of man
srwd(w) - who perpetuates
xt(w).f - his things
pAwt.f - his offering loaves
Line 3
mDAt nt Snt gs-tp stp n pAqt di.w r tp.f
A book of/for remedies to exorcise a migraine headache: a strip of fine linen cloth wound round his
head
mDat - book
nt - gen adv
Snt - to exorcise
gs-tp - migraie headache
stp - strip of cloth
n - of
pAqt - fine linen
di.w - stative placed
r - to
tp.f - his head
Line 4
kt [pXrt] nt mr(w)t m gs-tp Dnnt tp n(y)t nar snwx Hr mrHt gs tp im r ra 4
Another (remedy) for a migraine: the skull of a catfish, having been boiled in oil, anoint the head with
it for 4 days.
kt - another [prescription]
nt - gen adj - for
mr(w)t m gs-tp- migraine headache paines
Dnnt - skull
n(y)t - of
nar - catfish
snwx Hr mrHt - having been boiled
gs - should anoint
tp - head
im - therewith
r ra 4 - for 4 days
good
XXXX
Hoch 11- 3
rwf
Hi, Bob!
I noticed on the Glyph Study website that I'm not the only one who has been having issues with the
new and improved GS website. This is how I found out, that I'm not receiving all posts.
I thought I had turned the corner on my problems with the new Hoch HMWK post, but I guess not. I
didn't receive the posting by Hester about Hoch on the main site, yet I received the replies! What's
going on here? I don't know. I don't work at Yahoo but that's where the problems are, it seems.
Personally, I think it's a lot of poor software development and a lot of very poor testing, attempting to
implement an abysmally poor sense of user interface design. But then I think user interface design has
gone in the tank in the last few years. Win-8 - which is an exceptionally poor design because it violates
the very concept of the PC, the new Yahoo mail, Yahoo neo-, etc, etc, etc ... . It doesn't seem to end.
Rob F.
Words to a judge
1. tx pw ns dbn pw ib.k rmnw.f pw spty.ky
The tongue is the weight in the scales of the pan.
Your heart is the standard weight
and in the arms of the balance are two lips.
If my translation is even close to right, I agree. This "pw" sentence is truly stupid! We have an accord.
2. Hedjefa's exhortation to his Hem-ka priest
iry-pat HAty-a imy-r nTr-Hm Hp-D-f Dd.f n Hm-kA.f mi.k nn xt r Dr
Royal heir, Governor, and Overseer of Ka Priests of the God, Hepjefa. He says to his Ka priest. You
will take these things to the maximum
xt.n.i mi nn n wabw Xry st Hr.k mi.k grt Hm-kA
which I placed under my seal. Take this to the wab-priests in your charge.
Take yourself, however, to the god's servant
n s(a) srwd xt.f srd pAwt.f
to strengthen a man's offerings and perpetuate his offering loaves
A slight disrailment. Look at the other homework entries.
Medical Texts
3. mDAt arq nt(y) Snt gs tp stp p(Aqt rdw r tp.f
A book of spells to investigate the migraine headache - A strip of fine linen is placed against his head
4.pxrt nt mr(w)t m gs tp Dnnt nt nar snwx Hr mrHt gs tp im r Xrw 4
(Another) prescription for the pains of a migraine headache - The head of a catfish, should be boiled in
oil and the (patient's) head anointed for about 4 days
Good medical work - by you, not by the Egyptian author, although he was trying to help.　XXXX
HOCH 11-3
John Parsloe
B)
1.
tx pw ns=k
dbn pw ib=k
rmnw=f pw spty ky
It is the plummet of your tongue; it is the deben weight of your heart; it is the balance of your two lips
2.
rpa HAty-a imy-r Hm nTr HpDf Dd=f m Hm-kA=f mk tn xwt r Dr
xtm.n=i m-a nn n wabw Xr st Hr=k mk grt in Hm-kA
n=s srwd xt=f srwd pAwt=f
Hereditary noble, count, overseer, priest, Hepdjefa, he says to his KA priest: Look you these affairs in
their entirety which I have put under contract in the hands of these web priests are under your
supervision. Look you moreover it is the KA priest himself who perpetuates his affairs and perpetuates
his offering loaves
3.
mDAt nt Snt gs-tp stp n p(A)qt dw r tp=f
Book of investigating a migraine A strip of fine linen placed on his head
4.
[pXrt] kt nt sXm wrt m gs-tp Dnnt nt nar snwx Hr mHrt gs tp im r hrw 4
Another [prescription] to completely overpower a migraine Boil the skull of a catfish in oil and anoint
the head with it for 4 days
very good
XXXX
Hi Bob!
See, I am being a good student: my homework is done in time! Now studying every morning ... but I
think there are still many things I am not clear about. Thank you for you feed back. I know it takes a
lot of your time (away from work, family and social life), but I also know that you love the Egyptian
and to teach it to us! Thanks for that J. This is GREAT stuff to learn!
Hester
I'm glad you're happy, Hester. Your enthusiasm is a joy to behold. And I'm really glad to see you're at
every day. Wow! Great!
HOCH 11.3 B 1-4
Hester R
1.
tx pw ns.k dbn pw ib.k r mnw.f pw spty ky
This, your tongue, it is a plumb of balance; this heart of you(rs), it is a monument to him; this/these lips
are for another.
2. rpt Haty-a imy-r Hm-nTr H(a)pDf(A) Dd.f Hm kA mak nn n(y) xt r Dr xtm m-a nn n(y) wab Xr stHr mak grt in n s srwD xt.f srwD pAwt.f
Hep-djefa, the Hm-nTr priest, overseer of the mayor’s priest, says to him, the Hm kA priest: “See,
regarding these offerings, the seal is in the hand of this wab-priest, under (his) care. See moreover, a
man is strengthened because of his offerings; his offerings strengthens (him).”
Just a little off at the end. Compare with the other homework entries.
3.
mDAt tx Snt gs tp stp n pAkt di r tp Haw.f
Untie the Book of Spells. Place a strip of cloth of fine linen on the side of his body.
Untie the Book of Spells - metaphorical? It's not right but it's close, and I like it.
4.
ktn mr(w)t m gs tp Dnnt n(y)t nar sn psy mrHt gs tp im tr / wnwt / hrw 4
A prescription/remedy for migraine/headache: Cook the skull (head?) of catfish, cook them in oil and
smear it on there four times a day / four hourly.
And I love “smear”. good.
XXXX
Marlene
B
1.
tx pw ns.k dbn pw ib.k rmn.f pw spty.ky
Your tongue is the tx-weight, your heart is the dbn-weight, your lips are his arms of balance
2.1 iry-pat HAty-a imy-r Hm-nTr Hap-Df(A) Dd.f n Hm-kA.f m.k nn n(y) xtw r Dr
Hereditary Nobleman, Regional Governor, imy-r Hm-nTr(w) Hep-djefa, he speaks (says) to his KaPriest: Look, all of these things
2.2
xtm(w).n.i m-a nn n wabw Xr st-Hr.k m.k grt in Hm-kA
which I have put under contract with these Wab-Priests, are under your supervision. Look, moreover, it
is the Ka-Priest
2.3
ns srwd xtw.f srwd pAwt.f
of a man, it is he who perpetuates his things and who perpetuates his offering loaves
3.
mDAt n(y)t snt gs-tp stp n pAqt di.w r tp.f
Papyrus Roll of Exorcising a Migraine Headache A strip of fine linen should be placed around his head
4.1 (pXrt) kt n(y)t mr(w)t m gs-tp Dnnt n(t)t nar snwx Hr mrHt
Another prescription for Migraine Headache pains. One must boil (Prospective) the skull of a catfish in
oil / fat
4.2 gs tp im r sw 4
One must anoint the head with this for 4 days,
very good

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