MR. P.B.W. E L F F E R S , T o w n C l e r k P i e t e r s b u r g . E x a m i n e d b y the C h a i r m a n . (P. 497.) I take it t h a t all these Indians m e n t i o n e d in your li s t are m o r e or less in the same area? - Yes, p r i n c i p a l l y M a r k e t S t r e e t a n d E x c e l s i o r Street. The l o w e r p o r t i o n of M a r k e t S t r e e t is the p r i n c i p a l I n d i a n t r a d i n g centre. E x a m i n e d b y Mr. Nana. (P. 501.) Y o u h a v e n o t i c e d that the Indians are all in the I n d i a n q u a r t e r a n d k e e p to t h e i r own a r e a ? - Yes. MR. P.A. O T T O , M a y o r of Louis T r i chardt. E x a m i n e d b y the C h a i r m an. (P. 512.) D o y o u k n o w w h e t h e r a n y of these I n d i a n traders have b e e n r e s i d i n g h e r e f r o m b e f o r e the B o e r w a r ? - T h a t w o u l d be v e r y d i f f i c u l t to say; i m m e d i a t e l y a f t e r the war. I could no t p o s s i b l y say. The a r e a i n w h i c h t h e y c a r r y on t heir b u s i n e s s is m o r e or less a d e f i n e d area, as far as the t o w n of Louis T r i c h a r d t is c o n c e r n e d ? - Q u i t e so. R u n n i n g f r o m the M a i n S treet, east. Is t h a t d o w n K r u g e r S t r e e t ? - No; K r o g h Street, east; I think, w i t h the e x c e p t i o n of one p r o p e r t y o n the w e s t e r n side. T h e y r u n m o r e or less in a s t r e t c h ? - A l o n g T r i c h a r d t S treet, a n d K r o g h Street. Take it f r o m the H o t e l L o u i s corner, does that s t r e t c h east? - E ast. On the r o a d t h at takes y o u to P u n d a M a r i a ? - Yes, a n d d o w n K r u g e r S treet. That is the one that takes y o u s t r a i g h t to the r a i l w a y station. Mos of t h e m are there. T h a t is m o r e or less the t r a ding q u a r t e r in w h i c h y o u w o u l d f i n d n e a r l y all the I n d i a n t r a d e r s ? - Yes, A S I A T I C L A N D LAWS COM M I S S I O N . R E F E R E N C E I N D I A N T R A D E R S IN C O U N T R Y D I S T R I C T S . MR. V LOK, T o w n C l e r k E r m olo. (P. 179.) E x a m i n e d b y Mr. Nana: The In d i a n s h a v e s e t t l e d in E r m e l o since the B o e r War, b u t y o u h a v e In d ians s t a y i n g here since 1898? - I cannot say. The r e c o r d s show that t h e y h a v e b e e n staying h e r e since 1898. I h a v e t r i e d to m a k e a l i s t of the licen c e s h e l d b y In d i a n s h e r e in E r m elo. date b a c k a l o n g pe r i od. I find that m o s t of these licences D e n d a r s 1 d a t e s b a c k to 1905 a n d Ismail M o o s a ’s to 1904. T h e r e are l i c e n c e s in 1 9 3 7 a n d 1938, bu t t h e y h a v e p a s s e d on f r o m one I n d i a n to a n o t h e r . Now, Mr. V I ok, has t here b e e n a n i n c r e a s e in I n d i a n traders to a n y g r e a t ex t e n t ? - No; at l e a s t n o t d u r i n g the last f e w years. T HE C H A I R M A N : years, Mr. V l o k ? W h a t do y o u m e a n b y the last f e w The l a s t t e n y e a r s ? - Let us say the last five years, Mr. C h a i r man. MR. J.G.R. C A I R N C R O S S . M a y o r of S t a n d e r t o n . MR. NANA: It w a s a c q u i r e d in 1918. (P. 202.) I n d i a n traders e s t a b l i s h e d t h e m s e l v e s in S t a n d e r t o n b e f o r e the B o e r W a r ? I d i d n o t k n o w S t a n d e r t o n m u c h b e f o r e the B o e r War. TH E C H A I R M A N : It is a m a t t e r of c o m m o n k n o w l e d g e ? - Yes. MR. NANA: I n d i a n trad e r s h a v e b e e n e s t a b l i s h e d in S t a n d e r t o n since 1898. Some of the p r e s e n t I n d i a n traders h a v e a c t u a l l y b e e n h e r e since 1 8 98? - Yes, it is quite likely. I h a v e b e e n e x a m i n i n g the d a t e s on w h i c h liccnces w e r e f i r s t g r a n t e d to Indians a n d I f i n d that some d a t e b a c k to 1906, to 1909, a n d to 1911, a n d as f a r as m y k n o w l e d g e goes there w e r e o n l y two n e w l i c e n c e s i s s u e d i n 1930. So m o s t of the t r a d e r s h e r e h a v e b e e n e s t a b l i s h e d h e r o f o r a v e r y long time? - Yes, quite likely. CR. W. W H E L A N / CRo W . W H E L A N , M a y o r of H e i d e l b u r g . MR. NANA: (P. 225.) A p a r t f r o m tran s f e r s , h a v e y o u g r a n t e d any new licences? - Well, some t i m e s lice n c e s h a v e b e e n a b a n d o n e d ; a l i c e n c e m a y h a v e l a p s e d f o r a m o n t h or s o m e t i m e s for a y e a r a n d t h e n a g a i n a n e w a p p l i c a t i o n is m a d e ; well, that w o u l d be a n e w licence. B u t the n u m b e r s m o r e or less are the same. THE CHAIRMAN: I t h i n k that is the p o i n t - that the n u m b e r of l i c e n c e s has r e m a i n e d p r a c t i c a l l y constant. M R . W .E . P R E L L E R , T o w n C l e r k L y d e n b u r g . ( P . 266 -267.) E x a m i n e d b y the C h a i r m a n : Nov/, can y o u tell us this. Has there b e e n a n i n c r e a s e or a d e c r e a s e in the n u m b e r of A s i a t i c l i c e n c e s in the last few y e a r s ? - T h ere ha s b e e n n o incr e a s e and n o d e c r e a s e ; t h e y h a v e r e m a i n e d c o n s t a n t e x c e p t in one case w h e r e a m a n died. There w a s no c o n t i n u a t i o n in that inst a n c e , there w a s no c o n t i n u a t i o n of the b u s i n e s s . E x a m i n e d b y Mr. Nana: (P. 278.) Has y o u r C o u n c i l g r a n t e d a single l i c e n c e to a n I n d i a n since 1 9 2 5 - a n e w l i c e n c e ? - No; the o n l y l i c e n c e s are those mentioned. O n l y the t r a n s f e r s i n A p r i l to N.M. C a s s i m and H a j e e H a s s i m & Son? - T h a t is correct. In d i a n s w o r e o c c u p y i n g a n d c a r r y i n g on trade on those stands since 1 9 0 4 ? - It is p o s s i b l e t h e y h a v o boon. Has the C o u n c i l g r a n t e d a n y n o w E u r o p e a n l i c e n c e s since 1932? - Yes, t h e y have. MR. G.R. S A N D E R S , T o w n C l e r k V e r e e n i g i n g . E x a m i n e d b y Mr. Nana. E u r o p e a n traders h a v e i n c r e a s e d m o r e i n p r o p o r t i o n to I n d i a n t r a d e r s . MR. H.D. S C H W A R T Z / MR. H.D. S C H W A R T Z . T o w n C l e r k S c h w e i z e r R e n e k e . ( P . 383.) E x a m i n e d b y the C h a i r m a n : Has this n u m b e r r e m a i n e d m o r e or less there b e e n constant, h a v e a n y n e w l i c e nces, e i t h e r E u r o p e a n or A s i a t i c s d u r i n g the last f e w y e a r s ? - D u r i n g the last two or three years t h e y h a v e b e e n f a i r l y constant. MR. P.B.W. E L F F E R S , T o w n C l e r k P i e t e r s b u r g . (P. 497.) E x a m i n e d b y the C h a i r m a n : I take it that all these I n d i a n s m e n t i o n e d in your list are m o r e or less in the same a r e a ? - Yes, p r i n c i p a l l y M a r k e t S t r e e t an d E x c e l s i o r Street. The l o w e r p o r t i o n of Ma r k e t S t r e e t is the p r i n c i p l e I n d i a n t r a d i n g centre. E x a m i n e d b y Mr* Nana: (P. 500.) Th ere h a v e b e e n Indians h e r e since 1 8 8 9 ? - Yes. The f a c t that t h e y w e r e h e r e was a l s o a c k n o w l e d g e d b y the old V o l k s r a a d ? - I b e l i e v e so. Take the case of G.M. K a l l a & Co. They were estab l i s h e d in 1888, H a s s i m M o t i i n 1898, a n d T i k l y in 1907. And t h e n t here are a g o o d n u m b e r of I n d i a n b u s i n e s s h o u s e s e s t a b l i s h e d b e t w e e n 1 9 0 0 an d 1 9 1 0 ? - Yes, all those p l aces w e r e e s t a b l i s h e d a l o n g time ago, MR. P.A. O T T O , M a y o r of L o u i s T r i c h a r d t . E x a m i n e d b y the C h a i r m a n : (P. 510.) T h e n there Is a p o i n t of some imp o r t a n c e . Has the n u m b e r of I n d i a n t r a d i n g l i c e n c e s i n c r e a s e d v e r y m u c h since 1932 In Louis T r i c h a r d t , or h a s it r e m a i n e d just a b o u t s t a t i o n a r y ? - I t h i n k the T o w n C l e r k c o u l d tell y o u a b o u t that. (Mr. K e o g h ) : I do n o t t h i n k there h a v e b e e n m a n y increases. Y o u m a y f i n d that one m a n goes out of b u s i n e s s and a n o t h e r comes. E x a m i n e d b y Mr. Nana: (P. 513.) D o y o u k n o w the f i r m of C a s s i m S u l i m a n ? - Yes. They/ T h e y h a v e h a d a l i c e n c e since 1904? - That I could n o t say. T h a t is b e f o r e m y time. It is one of the oldest. A n d firms like K h a n j e e , and Meta, h o l d licerifles f r o m 1908? - B e y o n d 1 9 1 5 I w o u l d n o t be a b l e to tell you, but t h e y are v e r y old l i cences. Ind i a n s in this t o w n h a v e b e e n e s t a b l i s h e d for a l a r g e n u m b e r of y e a r s ? - Yes. M R . P .B .M . E L F F E R S , T o w n C l e r k P i e t e r s b u r g . E x a m i n e d b y the C h a i r m a n : (P. 497.) A n e q u a l n u m b e r of E u r o p e a n and I n d i a n traders? Yes, I t h i n k so. Has this n u m b e r of A s i a t i c b u s i n e s s m e n r e m a i n e d f a i r l y c o n s t a n t d u r i n g the last four or five y e a r s ? I mean, has there b e e n a n y p a r t i c u l a r incre a s e or d e c r e a s e in their n u m b e r s ? - T h e i r n u m b e r s h a v e r e m a i n e d p r e t t y steady, and the v a r i a t i o n e i t h e r w a y has b e e n v e r y small. D o e s that a p p l y to E u r o p e a n s too? - A f e w add i t i o n a l shops h a v e o p e n e d d u r i n g the last couple of years, b u t there h a s not b e e n m u c h a l t e r a t i o n e i t h e r way, MR. C.F. R U P P E R T , T o w n C l e r k Nylstroom. E x a m i n e d b y the C h a i r m a n : (P. 451.) T h e s e cases y o u h a v e m e n t i o n e d here, ten in all n i n e g e n e r a l d e a l e r s a n d one f r u i t shop, are those all the A s i a t i c h o l d e r s of the b u s i n e s s e s in the a r e a of the M u n i c i p a l i t y ? - Yes. T h a t is w i t h i n the M u n i c i p a l area. Has that n u m b e r b e e n m o r e or less c o n s t a n t ? - Yes sir, it has. T h e r e m a y h a v e b e e n small f l u c t u a t i o n s of one or two? - Yes. E x a m i n e d b y Mr. Nana: (P. 454.) M y i n f o r m a t i o n g o e s to show that these p e o p l e were h e r e b e f o r e the B o e r W a r ? - T h a t m a y b e so. The n u m b e r / A S I A T I C L A N D LAWS C O M M ISSION. REFERENCE - DEPRECIATION. MR. J.G.R. C A I R N C R O S S , M a y o r of Sta n d e r t o n . E x a m i n e d b y Mr. S.M. Nana. (P. 198.) N o w the s c h o o l w h i c h y o u h a v e m e n t i o n e d , I suppose, Is a b u i l d i n g of w h i c h the w h o l e of S t a n d e r t o n is proud? It c e r t a i n l y i m p r o v e d that a r e a w h i c h w a s in r a t h e r a d i s r e p u t a b l e p o r t i o n of the town. MR. G.R. S A N D E R S , Town Clerk Vereeniging. E x a m i n e d b y Mr. Nana. (p. 332, 334, 334b.) H a v e y o u e v e r b e e n i n s i d e A c k e r m a n ' s p r e m i s e s ? - Yes. H a v e y o u b e e n i n s i d e W h i t e H o u s e or D a d a b h a y ’s? - Yes H o w w o u l d y o u d e s c r i b e the c o n d i t i o n s inside the shop? - G e n e r a l l y s p e a k i n g quite fair. T h e y are not i n f e r i o r to P a r a m o u n t or to A c k e r m a n ' s ? No, I s h o u l d no t t h i n k so. ... So y o u are a w a r e of the f a c t that p r o p e r t i e s owned b y E u r o p e a n s ar e a l s o s o m e t i m e s b a d ? - There is n o d e n y i n g it; there are i n s t a n c e s w h e r e E u r o p e a n s d o n o t look a f t e r property. ... In a s i m i l a r w a y the d e p r e c i a t i o n of R a i l w a y Stre e t w as n o t due to I n d i a n o c c u p a t i o n ! it has b e c o m e a d e a d street as f a r as b u s i n e s s was c o ncerned. N o w the M o s q u e was b u i l t in 1 9 1 7 ? - Yes. H o w w o u l d y o u d e s c r i b e the c o n d i t i o n of the M o s q u e at that t i m e - wa s it one of the b e s t b u i l d i n g s of the town? Yes, it w a s a g o o d b u i l d i n g f o r the time. A t that time it was one of "THE" b u i l d i n g s in V e r e e n i g i n g - w o u l d y o u agree that that w a s so?- Yes, it was an outstanding building. One of the b e s t if n o t the b e s t b u i l d i n g in the town? It w a s a g o o d b u i l d i n g at the time. And/ A n d it cost s o m e t h i n g b e t w e e n £ 8 , 0 0 0 . 0 . 0 . and £ 1 0 , 0 0 0 . 0 , 0 . to b u i l d ? - Yes, so I beli e v e . T h e r e f o r e it m a y be s a i d that I n d ians h a v e p u t up v e r y s u b s t a n t i a l b u i l d i n g s ? - I supp o s e so. Y o u can sa y f r o m y o u r o w n k n o w l e d g e that the Indians in V e r e e n i g i n g h a v e pu t u p a n u m b e r of s u b s t a n t i a l a n d v e r y g o o d b u i l d i n g s , is that not so? - T h e y h a v e put u p some good b u i l d i n g s in a n u m b e r of i n stances. In some i n s t a n c e s t h e y h a v e p u t u p some of the v e r y b e s t b u i l d i n g s in this town? - T h e y h a v e put up some g o o d b u i l d i n g s - I a gree that that is so. MR, H. C O E T Z E E , M a y o r of R u s t e n b u r g . E x a m i n e d b y Mr. Nana. (P. 417.) Y o u h a v e s e e n the M o h a m m e d a n M o s q u e in R u s t e n b u r g ? - > Yes. It is a v e r y g o o d b u i l d i n g . to b u i l d ? - I do not k n ow. It cost a b o u t £ 5 , 0 0 0 . 0 . 0 . It is a v e r y g o o d b u i l d i n g . A n d the school; that a l s o cost a b o u t £ 5 , 0 0 0 . 0 . 0 . to b u i l d ? - It is a g o o d b u i l d i n g . A n d the I n d i a n c o m m u n i t y g a v e £ 1 , 0 0 0 . 0 . 0 . to the h o s p i t a l , an d h a v e a s e p a r a t e w a r d ? - Yes, t h e y contributed, and t h e y h a v e a s e p a r a t e ward. T h e r e f o r e , y o u w i l l a gree that the p u b l i c b u i l d i n g s pu t up b y I n d i a n s are v e r y c r e d i t a b l e b u i l d i n g s ? - Yes; put it this way, there are a n u m b e r of b u i l d i n g s put up b y Indians w h i c h are good, s o l i d b u i l d i n g s . i'f •)}• The s c h o o l b u i l d i n g r e f e r r e d to In Standertor. cost £10,500.0.0. to erect a n d w a s d e s c r i b e d b y the H o n o u r a b l e Ju s t i c e J o h n M urray, C h a i r m a n of the A s i a t i c L a n d Laws C o m m i s s i o n , as "A m a g n i f i c e n t o n e ”. Collection Number: AD1715 SOUTH AFRICAN INSTITUTE OF RACE RELATIONS (SAIRR), 1892-1974 PUBLISHER: Collection Funder:- Atlantic Philanthropies Foundation Publisher:- Historical Papers Research Archive Location:- Johannesburg ©2013 LEGAL NOTICES: Copyright Notice: All materials on the Historical Papers website are protected by South African copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, or otherwise published in any format, without the prior written permission of the copyright owner. Disclaimer and Terms of Use: Provided that you maintain all copyright and other notices contained therein, you may download material (one machine readable copy and one print copy per page) for your personal and/or educational non-commercial use only. People using these records relating to the archives of Historical Papers, The Library, University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg, are reminded that such records sometimes contain material which is uncorroborated, inaccurate, distorted or untrue. While these digital records are true facsimiles of paper documents and the information contained herein is obtained from sources believed to be accurate and reliable, Historical Papers, University of the Witwatersrand has not independently verified their content. Consequently, the University is not responsible for any errors or omissions and excludes any and all liability for any errors in or omissions from the information on the website or any related information on third party websites accessible from this website. This document forms part of the archive of the South African Institute of Race Relations (SAIRR), held at the Historical Papers Research Archive at The University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg, South Africa.
© Copyright 2024 ExpyDoc
